Matthew Matsuzaki.

We came prepared to talk about design. What followed was a much more personal conversation about the lives behind the work.

Matthew and Howard compare their experiences of neurodivergence, from ADHD and OCD to the very different ways they picture the world. Matthew reflects on approaching ten years of sobriety, learning Japanese, navigating relationships and parenting, and making room for vulnerability.

There’s design in here, too: a school logo contest, a fine-art education, the discovery of CSS, and the winding road to Ghost. Matthew also shares why he’s building Wimp Decaf slowly, how burnout changed his relationship with work, and what it means to stop trying to optimize every part of life.

Along the way, they talk about meditation, finding a shared language for emotions, and the relief of realizing that someone else understands what you’re going through.